Custom Fields - Deleting And Where Are They Saved

S

SRM

I'm using O2003. I have used many user defined fields that I have

deleted and no longer want to use. I have deleted them from my form,

views, and contacts. In fact, I think none of my contacts have user

defined fields in the folder level anymore, only in the item level.

Hence - my first question.

Should I create the same fields at the folder level that are saved in

the item level for my contacts folder? I will be creating other

contact folders.

I am using a third party program to export the custom fields I am

using. However, the program keeps finding all the user defined fields

I have deleted. I'm guessing the fields are still listed somewhere. I

have created new forms, applied new forms, cleared the cache, but

cannot get rid of the user defined deleted fields.

Second question - Is there a place these deleted fields are listed in

Outlook that I can get rid of them? I don't know if there are some of

these old deleted fields at the item level as I have over 15,000

contacts. I don't know if there is a way to find user defined fields

at the item level.

The reason for this is I need to export select custom fields. When

there are dozens of extra fields listed but not used, its a laundry

list of fields I need to pick from. I was just hoping there was a

location I can clean up the old deleted user defined fields.

I have also asked the vendor where they are getting the listing of

fields from.

Thanks

Shawn
 

Karl Timmermans

Senior Member
Outlook version
Outlook 2013 32 bit
Email Account
POP3
First a couple of articles that you may find of interest

#1 - User-defined fields - (in folder) versus (in item)

http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=99

#2 - User-Defined (Custom) fields in Custom Forms

http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=102

To specifically answer your 2 questions:

#1 - Unless you have specifically deleted a user-defined field

for a given item - it has not been deleted for that item

(hence, whatever export program you're using is picking

up the data at the item level versus the folder level)

Exporting every field at the item level may be a nice

concept but the drawback to that is that "technically"

every contact can have a different set of fields - i.e.

in your case, 15,000 contacts can each have a different

UDF resulting in 15,000 different UDF fields for the

folder. Try and put all your contacts in one file and you

have nothing short of a "mess". The chances of every

contact having a different UDF is highly unlikely but

rest assured that we've seen some "highly creative"

environments when it comes to Outlook data which is

also the basis for another article:

"Yes you can..but should you?"

http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=54

#2 - There is no place in Outlook that lists "orphan" user-defined

fields - you may find ContactGenie Toolkit of interest

which has a function that addresses that particular issue

http://www.contactgenie.com/toolkit_4_outlook.htm

Karl

______________________

ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact Mgr

"""

"SRM" <shawnmsrm@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:08fc2efe-6c3a-44b5-bcf3-6e436a6b46a1@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> I'm using O2003. I have used many user defined fields that I have
> deleted and no longer want to use. I have deleted them from my form,
> views, and contacts. In fact, I think none of my contacts have user
> defined fields in the folder level anymore, only in the item level.
> Hence - my first question.

> Should I create the same fields at the folder level that are saved in
> the item level for my contacts folder? I will be creating other
> contact folders.

> I am using a third party program to export the custom fields I am
> using. However, the program keeps finding all the user defined fields
> I have deleted. I'm guessing the fields are still listed somewhere. I
> have created new forms, applied new forms, cleared the cache, but
> cannot get rid of the user defined deleted fields.

> Second question - Is there a place these deleted fields are listed in
> Outlook that I can get rid of them? I don't know if there are some of
> these old deleted fields at the item level as I have over 15,000
> contacts. I don't know if there is a way to find user defined fields
> at the item level.

> The reason for this is I need to export select custom fields. When
> there are dozens of extra fields listed but not used, its a laundry
> list of fields I need to pick from. I was just hoping there was a
> location I can clean up the old deleted user defined fields.

> I have also asked the vendor where they are getting the listing of
> fields from.

> Thanks

> Shawn
 
S

SRM

On Feb 20, 5:43 pm, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:
> First a couple of articles that you may find of interest
> #1 - User-defined fields - (in folder) versus (in item)http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=99

> #2 - User-Defined (Custom) fields in Custom Formshttp://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=102

> To specifically answer your 2 questions:
> #1 - Unless you have specifically deleted a user-defined field
>         for a given item - it has not been deleted for that item
>        (hence, whatever export program you're using is picking
>         up the data at the item level versus the folder level)
>        Exporting every field at the item level may be a nice
>        concept but the drawback to that is that "technically"
>        every contact can have a different set of fields - i.e.
>        in your case, 15,000 contacts can each have a different
>        UDF resulting in 15,000 different UDF fields for the
>        folder. Try and put all your contacts in one file and you
>        have nothing short of a "mess". The chances of every
>        contact having a different UDF is highly unlikely but
>        rest assured that we've seen some "highly creative"
>        environments when it comes to Outlook data which is
>        also the basis for another article:
>       "Yes you can..but should you?"
>        http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=54

> #2 - There is no place in Outlook that lists "orphan" user-defined
>         fields - you may find ContactGenie Toolkit of interest
>         which has a function that addresses that particular issue
>        http://www.contactgenie.com/toolkit_4_outlook.htm

> Karl
> > ______________________
>

> ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact Mgr
> """http://www.contactgenie.com

> "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:08fc2efe-6c3a-44b5-bcf3-6e436a6b46a1@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I'm using O2003. I have used many user defined fields that I have
> > deleted and no longer want to use. I have deleted them from my form,
> > views, and contacts. In fact, I think none of my contacts have user
> > defined fields in the folder level anymore, only in the item level.
> > Hence - my first question.

>
> > Should I create the same fields at the folder level that are saved in
> > the item level for my contacts folder? I will be creating other
> > contact folders.

>
> > I am using a third party program to export the custom fields I am
> > using. However, the program keeps finding all the user defined fields
> > I have deleted. I'm guessing the fields are still listed somewhere. I
> > have created new forms, applied new forms, cleared the cache, but
> > cannot get rid of the user defined deleted fields.

>
> > Second question - Is there a place these deleted fields are listed in
> > Outlook that I can get rid of them? I don't know if there are some of
> > these old deleted fields at the item level as I have over 15,000
> > contacts. I don't know if there is a way to find user defined fields
> > at the item level.

>
> > The reason for this is I need to export select custom fields. When
> > there are dozens of extra fields listed but not used, its a laundry
> > list of fields I need to pick from. I was just hoping there was a
> > location I can clean up the old deleted user defined fields.

>
> > I have also asked the vendor where they are getting the listing of
> > fields from.

>
> > Thanks

>
> > Shawn


Karl:

Thank you very much. I read through your articles (very useful) and

had a few more questions if you don't mind. I greatly appreciate the

articles and your time.

1. If I want a field in a view, I must add it at the folder level.

Since I have no fields left at the folder level, I see that I cannot

add any of my custom fields (currently custom fields only used in my

custom form) to my custom view. Also, I'm assuming its probably best

to create the fields required at the folder level and then copy the

folder. That way I don't have to recreate the fields again at the

folder level for the new folder. Correct on these two items?

2. I have a custom form and have many custom fields created at both

the View level and the Form level. I am not using the IPM.Contact

form. Ignoring first how to clean up the old fields, if I understand

correctly it seems I should only create fields at the View level. I

should not create fields using the form designer. Is that correct?

So I create new fields at view level and then use them in the form

designer. Correct?

3. I tried your Contact Genie Toolkit on a subset contact folder as a

test. I selected the test folder, my custom form, select "Add/Remove

Orphan UDFs", and got a message beginning with FTK031 that it only

works on the IPM.Contact form. Can I use this tool on my custom form

to remove orphaned fields?

I don't know if this part of the discussion should be under your

website.

4. When I tested your export utility, none of the deleted fields

(e.g., Test 1, Test 2) appeared in your export list.

One thing to note is when I created a brand new contact and tried the

export, none of the old deleted fields (e.g., Test 1, Test 2) appear

in the list. It seems new contacts are OK, however, I have about

15,000 that probably still have old data that I want to clean up.

Thanks

Shawn
 

Karl Timmermans

Senior Member
Outlook version
Outlook 2013 32 bit
Email Account
POP3
#1 - If you are using a custom form - user-defined fields should

<ONLY> be added/deleted within the custom form. You should

<NEVER> add any additional fields to a contact item assigned

to a custom form since you will only one-off the form. As for

copying contacts that use a custom form - make sure that the

custom form is available (i.e. by either publishing it to the target

folder or to the Personal Forms Lib but strongly advise against

the same form published to both the Pers Lib and a folder -

recipe for problems)

#2 - Custom forms do not have "orphan fields" - the UDF list is

assigned at the "custom form level" and every contact item

assigned a given custom form has the same UDF fields (unless you

have manually added other UDF's (see point #1) . As the two

articles regarding User-Defined fields point out - UDF's

for Folder/Items are different animals then those assigned within

a custom form

#3 - Custom fields in a custom form would be available to be

added to any view - not sure about anything added to the folder

or item outside of the custom form (see item#1). That said,

UDF's added manually to a contact item outside of the

custom form is not a scenario handled by CG Toolkit by design.

<If> you have 15000 contacts assigned to a custom form and

these contacts additionally have UDF fields that have been

manually added - that by definition means that each and every

one of the manually added UDF's has had a value added to it

a standard UDF does not get added to a specific contact item

unless and until a value is entered into the field. So the question

in this is - how exactly are you determining that the contacts

assigned to a custom form have extra fields - via Outlook or the

3rd party export program you are using?

#4 - Any of the ContactGenie products with export functionality

<only> include user-defined fields defined at the <Folder> level

(for items assigned to IPM.Contact) - all <item> level UDF's are

ignored for the reason(s) mentioned in the original answer. Items

assigned to a custom form only use the UDFs assigned to the

form regardless of what may actually be contained in the a

contact item's UserProperty collection. None of the CG products

directly reference any item via the Outlook object model (OOM)

anymore but instead use Redemption (http://www.dimastr.com )

which avoids a lot of potential problems (not sure about O'2007

and beyond but dealing with the UserProperty collection directly

via OOM opened up a wide variety of potential problems -

not the cleanest collection of fields in the world). Only reason for

mentioning this is that if your 3rd party export program (please

don't reference it by name in this thread - don't know what it is

and don't want to know) is still reporting UDF's outside of those

contained in the custom form, it is going through the contact item's

userproperty collection directly which will include anything and

everything that was ever added to it, something which should be

of no concern if you are using a custom form.

#5 - Re: "Deleted field" not appearing in the CG Toolkit export

field list. Don't understand the comment - why would you want

a deleted field to appear?

Off the cuff, if you want to clean up what sounds like a mess - you

may want to try the following (backing up your PST file before

proceeding!!!!!!)

a) Re-publish your custom form under a new name

b) assign all your contacts to this new form name - that should result

in your contacts only having the UDF's assigned to the custom form

and everything returns to normal. the only custom fields you

should see at this point are those solely assigned within the custom

form. (Am assuming this to be correct but not 100% sure since

haven't tested what happens when #1) UDF's have been manually

added to an item assigned to a custom form and then

#2) changing the assigned custom form)

Karl

______________________

ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact Mgr

"""

"SRM" <shawnmsrm@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:873688ce-fd14-4070-8207-1c9a500cf14b@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...

On Feb 20, 5:43 pm, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:
> First a couple of articles that you may find of interest
> #1 - User-defined fields - (in folder) versus (in
> item)http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=99

> #2 - User-Defined (Custom) fields in Custom
> Formshttp://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=102

> To specifically answer your 2 questions:
> #1 - Unless you have specifically deleted a user-defined field
> for a given item - it has not been deleted for that item
> (hence, whatever export program you're using is picking
> up the data at the item level versus the folder level)
> Exporting every field at the item level may be a nice
> concept but the drawback to that is that "technically"
> every contact can have a different set of fields - i.e.
> in your case, 15,000 contacts can each have a different
> UDF resulting in 15,000 different UDF fields for the
> folder. Try and put all your contacts in one file and you
> have nothing short of a "mess". The chances of every
> contact having a different UDF is highly unlikely but
> rest assured that we've seen some "highly creative"
> environments when it comes to Outlook data which is
> also the basis for another article:
> "Yes you can..but should you?"
> http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=54

> #2 - There is no place in Outlook that lists "orphan" user-defined
> fields - you may find ContactGenie Toolkit of interest
> which has a function that addresses that particular issue
> http://www.contactgenie.com/toolkit_4_outlook.htm

> Karl
> > ______________________
>

> ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact Mgr
> "Contact import/export/data management tools for Outlook
> '2000/2010"http://www.contactgenie.com

> "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:08fc2efe-6c3a-44b5-bcf3-6e436a6b46a1@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I'm using O2003. I have used many user defined fields that I have
> > deleted and no longer want to use. I have deleted them from my form,
> > views, and contacts. In fact, I think none of my contacts have user
> > defined fields in the folder level anymore, only in the item level.
> > Hence - my first question.

>
> > Should I create the same fields at the folder level that are saved in
> > the item level for my contacts folder? I will be creating other
> > contact folders.

>
> > I am using a third party program to export the custom fields I am
> > using. However, the program keeps finding all the user defined fields
> > I have deleted. I'm guessing the fields are still listed somewhere. I
> > have created new forms, applied new forms, cleared the cache, but
> > cannot get rid of the user defined deleted fields.

>
> > Second question - Is there a place these deleted fields are listed in
> > Outlook that I can get rid of them? I don't know if there are some of
> > these old deleted fields at the item level as I have over 15,000
> > contacts. I don't know if there is a way to find user defined fields
> > at the item level.

>
> > The reason for this is I need to export select custom fields. When
> > there are dozens of extra fields listed but not used, its a laundry
> > list of fields I need to pick from. I was just hoping there was a
> > location I can clean up the old deleted user defined fields.

>
> > I have also asked the vendor where they are getting the listing of
> > fields from.

>
> > Thanks

>
> > Shawn


Karl:

Thank you very much. I read through your articles (very useful) and

had a few more questions if you don't mind. I greatly appreciate the

articles and your time.

1. If I want a field in a view, I must add it at the folder level.

Since I have no fields left at the folder level, I see that I cannot

add any of my custom fields (currently custom fields only used in my

custom form) to my custom view. Also, I'm assuming its probably best

to create the fields required at the folder level and then copy the

folder. That way I don't have to recreate the fields again at the

folder level for the new folder. Correct on these two items?

2. I have a custom form and have many custom fields created at both

the View level and the Form level. I am not using the IPM.Contact

form. Ignoring first how to clean up the old fields, if I understand

correctly it seems I should only create fields at the View level. I

should not create fields using the form designer. Is that correct?

So I create new fields at view level and then use them in the form

designer. Correct?

3. I tried your Contact Genie Toolkit on a subset contact folder as a

test. I selected the test folder, my custom form, select "Add/Remove

Orphan UDFs", and got a message beginning with FTK031 that it only

works on the IPM.Contact form. Can I use this tool on my custom form

to remove orphaned fields?

I don't know if this part of the discussion should be under your

website.

4. When I tested your export utility, none of the deleted fields

(e.g., Test 1, Test 2) appeared in your export list.

One thing to note is when I created a brand new contact and tried the

export, none of the old deleted fields (e.g., Test 1, Test 2) appear

in the list. It seems new contacts are OK, however, I have about

15,000 that probably still have old data that I want to clean up.

Thanks

Shawn
 
S

SRM

On Feb 22, 11:34 am, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:
> #1 - If you are using a custom form - user-defined fields should
> <ONLY> be added/deleted within the custom form. You should
> <NEVER> add any additional fields to a contact item assigned
> to a custom form since you will only one-off the form. As for
> copying contacts that use a custom form - make sure that the
> custom form is available (i.e. by either publishing it to the target
> folder or to the Personal Forms Lib but strongly advise against
> the same form published to both the Pers Lib and a folder -
> recipe for problems)

> #2 - Custom forms do not have "orphan fields" - the UDF list is
> assigned at the "custom form level" and every contact item
> assigned a given custom form has the same UDF fields (unless you
> have manually added other UDF's (see point #1) . As the two
> articles regarding User-Defined fields point out - UDF's
> for Folder/Items are different animals then those assigned within
> a custom form

> #3 - Custom fields in a custom form would be available to be
> added to any view - not sure about anything added to the folder
> or item outside of the custom form (see item#1). That said,
> UDF's added manually to a contact item outside of the
> custom form is not a scenario handled by CG Toolkit by design.

> <If> you have 15000 contacts assigned to a custom form and
> these contacts additionally have UDF fields that have been
> manually added - that by definition means that each and every
> one of the manually added UDF's has had a value added to it
> a standard UDF does not get added to a specific contact item
> unless and until a value is entered into the field. So the question
> in this is - how exactly are you determining that the contacts
> assigned to a custom form have extra fields - via Outlook or the
> 3rd party export program you are using?

> #4 - Any of the ContactGenie products with export functionality
> <only> include user-defined fields defined at the <Folder> level
> (for items assigned to IPM.Contact) - all <item> level UDF's are
> ignored for the reason(s) mentioned in the original answer. Items
> assigned to a custom form only use the UDFs assigned to the
> form regardless of what may actually be contained in the a
> contact item's UserProperty collection. None of the CG products
> directly reference any item via the Outlook object model (OOM)
> anymore but instead use Redemption (http://www.dimastr.com)
> which avoids a lot of potential problems (not sure about O'2007
> and beyond but dealing with the UserProperty collection directly
> via OOM opened up a wide variety of potential problems -
> not the cleanest collection of fields in the world). Only reason for
> mentioning this is that if your 3rd party export program (please
> don't reference it by name in this thread - don't know what it is
> and don't want to know)  is still reporting UDF's outside of those
> contained in the custom form, it is going through the contact item's
> userproperty collection directly which will include anything and
> everything that was ever added to it, something which should be
> of no concern if you are using a custom form.

> #5 - Re: "Deleted field" not appearing in the CG Toolkit export
> field list. Don't understand the comment - why would you want
> a deleted field to appear?

> Off the cuff, if you want to clean up what sounds like a mess - you
> may want to try the following (backing up your PST file before
> proceeding!!!!!!)

> a) Re-publish your custom form under a new name
> b) assign all your contacts to this new form name - that should result
> in your contacts only having the UDF's assigned to the custom form
> and everything returns to normal. the only custom fields you
> should see at this point are those solely assigned within the custom
> form. (Am assuming this to be correct but not 100% sure since
> haven't tested what happens when #1) UDF's have been manually
> added to an item assigned to a custom form and then
> #2) changing the assigned custom form)

> Karl
> > ______________________
>

> ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact Mgr
> """http://www.contactgenie.com

> "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:873688ce-fd14-4070-8207-1c9a500cf14b@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 20, 5:43 pm, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:

>
> > First a couple of articles that you may find of interest
> > #1 - User-defined fields - (in folder) versus (in
> > item)http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=99

>
> > #2 - User-Defined (Custom) fields in Custom
> > Formshttp://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=102

>
> > To specifically answer your 2 questions:
> > #1 - Unless you have specifically deleted a user-defined field
> > for a given item - it has not been deleted for that item
> > (hence, whatever export program you're using is picking
> > up the data at the item level versus the folder level)
> > Exporting every field at the item level may be a nice
> > concept but the drawback to that is that "technically"
> > every contact can have a different set of fields - i.e.
> > in your case, 15,000 contacts can each have a different
> > UDF resulting in 15,000 different UDF fields for the
> > folder. Try and put all your contacts in one file and you
> > have nothing short of a "mess". The chances of every
> > contact having a different UDF is highly unlikely but
> > rest assured that we've seen some "highly creative"
> > environments when it comes to Outlook data which is
> > also the basis for another article:
> > "Yes you can..but should you?"
> >http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=54

>
> > #2 - There is no place in Outlook that lists "orphan" user-defined
> > fields - you may find ContactGenie Toolkit of interest
> > which has a function that addresses that particular issue
> >http://www.contactgenie.com/toolkit_4_outlook.htm

>
> > Karl
> > > > ______________________
> >

> > ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact Mgr
> > "Contact import/export/data management tools for Outlook
> > '2000/2010"http://www.contactgenie.com

>
> > "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> >news:08fc2efe-6c3a-44b5-bcf3-6e436a6b46a1@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com....

>
> > > I'm using O2003. I have used many user defined fields that I have
> > > deleted and no longer want to use. I have deleted them from my form,
> > > views, and contacts. In fact, I think none of my contacts have user
> > > defined fields in the folder level anymore, only in the item level.
> > > Hence - my first question.

>
> > > Should I create the same fields at the folder level that are saved in
> > > the item level for my contacts folder? I will be creating other
> > > contact folders.

>
> > > I am using a third party program to export the custom fields I am
> > > using. However, the program keeps finding all the user defined fields
> > > I have deleted. I'm guessing the fields are still listed somewhere. I
> > > have created new forms, applied new forms, cleared the cache, but
> > > cannot get rid of the user defined deleted fields.

>
> > > Second question - Is there a place these deleted fields are listed in
> > > Outlook that I can get rid of them? I don't know if there are some of
> > > these old deleted fields at the item level as I have over 15,000
> > > contacts. I don't know if there is a way to find user defined fields
> > > at the item level.

>
> > > The reason for this is I need to export select custom fields. When
> > > there are dozens of extra fields listed but not used, its a laundry
> > > list of fields I need to pick from. I was just hoping there was a
> > > location I can clean up the old deleted user defined fields.

>
> > > I have also asked the vendor where they are getting the listing of
> > > fields from.

>
> > > Thanks

>
> > > Shawn


> Karl:

> Thank you very much. I read through your articles (very useful) and
> had a few more questions if you don't mind. I greatly appreciate the
> articles and your time.

> 1. If I want a field in a view, I must add it at the folder level.
> Since I have no fields left at the folder level, I see that I cannot
> add any of my custom fields (currently custom fields only used in my
> custom form) to my custom view. Also, I'm assuming its probably best
> to create the fields required at the folder level and then copy the
> folder. That way I don't have to recreate the fields again at the
> folder level for the new folder. Correct on these two items?

> 2. I have a custom form and have many custom fields created at both
> the View level and the Form level. I am not using the IPM.Contact
> form. Ignoring first how to clean up the old fields, if I understand
> correctly it seems I should only create fields at the View level. I
> should not create fields using the form designer. Is that correct?

> So I create new fields at view level and then use them in the form
> designer. Correct?

> 3. I tried your Contact Genie Toolkit on a subset contact folder as a
> test. I selected the test folder, my custom form, select "Add/Remove
> Orphan UDFs", and got a message beginning with FTK031 that it only
> works on the IPM.Contact form. Can I use this tool on my custom form
> to remove orphaned fields?

> I don't know if this part of the discussion should be under your
> website.

> 4. When I tested your export utility, none of the deleted fields
> (e.g., Test 1, Test 2) appeared in your export list.

> One thing to note is when I created a brand new contact and tried the
> export, none of the old deleted fields (e.g., Test 1, Test 2) appear
> in the list. It seems new contacts are OK, however, I have about
> 15,000 that probably still have old data that I want to clean up.

> Thanks

> Shawn


Karl:

Yes, I did inherit a mess. I agree. I'm going to read through your

comments in detail and try to proceed forward.

The comment about the "Deleted" field was the 3rd party program listed

all fields that were ever created (I think). Some had numbers by them

like "Test[#-7EE2FFE2]". What I did as a test is copied a few contacts

in a separate contacts folder, did the same test exporting, and those

"Deleted" fields appeared in the 3rd part program as fields to export.

Since there was only 5 contacts I was easily able to see the item and

folder level fields for each contact.

The extra "Deleted" fields were in neither the item level or the

folder level, hence my question when this topic got started. If they

aren't in the folder level or item level, what are they still

appearing in this programs export list of fields. They are not being

listed in your program when exported.

May its an issue with the 3rd party program.

Shawn
 

Karl Timmermans

Senior Member
Outlook version
Outlook 2013 32 bit
Email Account
POP3
Re: "May its an issue with the 3rd party program."

My I offer a suggestion that will probably save you a great deal

of unnecessary aggravation and time....

Given that you are using a custom form, focus <ONLY> on

the fields you explicitly see in Outlook (those fields

and any UDF's displayed by any ContactGenie program

should be identical). Ignore everything else unless additional

user-defined fields were added to an individual contact

after a custom form was assigned to it. In this case, the custom

form will be "one-offed" but that still should never result in

any "deleted" field from appearing.

<IF> the program you are using is explicitly iterating through the

contact item's UserProerties collection from start to finish

(i.e. starting at entry #1 for the total number of entries in the

collection) - there is absolutely no question that extraneous info

may be found and if each and every entry is not checked to

ensure that it is valid - you will get the results you are seeing -

deleted fields will be included - there are no ifs, ands or buts

about it. Outlook is not especially meticulous as to what the

UserProperty collection contains but it knows what is relevant

for its purposes. That was a lesson learned the hard way a long

time ago with the release of the first ContactGenie program

back in 2001.

Without knowing the background, sounds nothing more than

what you are seeing is the field add/delete activity that took place

when the custom form was designed (deleting a field from a

custom form does not delete it from the raw UserProperties

collection which I'm guessing is what is going on and not at all

something that you should be remotely concerned about).

Karl

______________________

ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact Mgr

"""

"SRM" <shawnmsrm@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:eb24d081-9304-46f8-8315-9ed5318a3ae9@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...

On Feb 22, 11:34 am, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:
> #1 - If you are using a custom form - user-defined fields should
> <ONLY> be added/deleted within the custom form. You should
> <NEVER> add any additional fields to a contact item assigned
> to a custom form since you will only one-off the form. As for
> copying contacts that use a custom form - make sure that the
> custom form is available (i.e. by either publishing it to the target
> folder or to the Personal Forms Lib but strongly advise against
> the same form published to both the Pers Lib and a folder -
> recipe for problems)

> #2 - Custom forms do not have "orphan fields" - the UDF list is
> assigned at the "custom form level" and every contact item
> assigned a given custom form has the same UDF fields (unless you
> have manually added other UDF's (see point #1) . As the two
> articles regarding User-Defined fields point out - UDF's
> for Folder/Items are different animals then those assigned within
> a custom form

> #3 - Custom fields in a custom form would be available to be
> added to any view - not sure about anything added to the folder
> or item outside of the custom form (see item#1). That said,
> UDF's added manually to a contact item outside of the
> custom form is not a scenario handled by CG Toolkit by design.

> <If> you have 15000 contacts assigned to a custom form and
> these contacts additionally have UDF fields that have been
> manually added - that by definition means that each and every
> one of the manually added UDF's has had a value added to it
> a standard UDF does not get added to a specific contact item
> unless and until a value is entered into the field. So the question
> in this is - how exactly are you determining that the contacts
> assigned to a custom form have extra fields - via Outlook or the
> 3rd party export program you are using?

> #4 - Any of the ContactGenie products with export functionality
> <only> include user-defined fields defined at the <Folder> level
> (for items assigned to IPM.Contact) - all <item> level UDF's are
> ignored for the reason(s) mentioned in the original answer. Items
> assigned to a custom form only use the UDFs assigned to the
> form regardless of what may actually be contained in the a
> contact item's UserProperty collection. None of the CG products
> directly reference any item via the Outlook object model (OOM)
> anymore but instead use Redemption (http://www.dimastr.com)
> which avoids a lot of potential problems (not sure about O'2007
> and beyond but dealing with the UserProperty collection directly
> via OOM opened up a wide variety of potential problems -
> not the cleanest collection of fields in the world). Only reason for
> mentioning this is that if your 3rd party export program (please
> don't reference it by name in this thread - don't know what it is
> and don't want to know) is still reporting UDF's outside of those
> contained in the custom form, it is going through the contact item's
> userproperty collection directly which will include anything and
> everything that was ever added to it, something which should be
> of no concern if you are using a custom form.

> #5 - Re: "Deleted field" not appearing in the CG Toolkit export
> field list. Don't understand the comment - why would you want
> a deleted field to appear?

> Off the cuff, if you want to clean up what sounds like a mess - you
> may want to try the following (backing up your PST file before
> proceeding!!!!!!)

> a) Re-publish your custom form under a new name
> b) assign all your contacts to this new form name - that should result
> in your contacts only having the UDF's assigned to the custom form
> and everything returns to normal. the only custom fields you
> should see at this point are those solely assigned within the custom
> form. (Am assuming this to be correct but not 100% sure since
> haven't tested what happens when #1) UDF's have been manually
> added to an item assigned to a custom form and then
> #2) changing the assigned custom form)

> Karl
> > ______________________
>

> ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact Mgr
> "Contact import/export/data management tools for Outlook
> '2000/2010"http://www.contactgenie.com

> "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:873688ce-fd14-4070-8207-1c9a500cf14b@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 20, 5:43 pm, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:

>
> > First a couple of articles that you may find of interest
> > #1 - User-defined fields - (in folder) versus (in
> > item)http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=99

>
> > #2 - User-Defined (Custom) fields in Custom
> > Formshttp://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=102

>
> > To specifically answer your 2 questions:
> > #1 - Unless you have specifically deleted a user-defined field
> > for a given item - it has not been deleted for that item
> > (hence, whatever export program you're using is picking
> > up the data at the item level versus the folder level)
> > Exporting every field at the item level may be a nice
> > concept but the drawback to that is that "technically"
> > every contact can have a different set of fields - i.e.
> > in your case, 15,000 contacts can each have a different
> > UDF resulting in 15,000 different UDF fields for the
> > folder. Try and put all your contacts in one file and you
> > have nothing short of a "mess". The chances of every
> > contact having a different UDF is highly unlikely but
> > rest assured that we've seen some "highly creative"
> > environments when it comes to Outlook data which is
> > also the basis for another article:
> > "Yes you can..but should you?"
> >http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=54

>
> > #2 - There is no place in Outlook that lists "orphan" user-defined
> > fields - you may find ContactGenie Toolkit of interest
> > which has a function that addresses that particular issue
> >http://www.contactgenie.com/toolkit_4_outlook.htm

>
> > Karl
> > > > ______________________
> >

> > ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact
> > Mgr
> > "Contact import/export/data management tools for Outlook
> > '2000/2010"http://www.contactgenie.com

>
> > "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> >news:08fc2efe-6c3a-44b5-bcf3-6e436a6b46a1@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

>
> > > I'm using O2003. I have used many user defined fields that I have
> > > deleted and no longer want to use. I have deleted them from my form,
> > > views, and contacts. In fact, I think none of my contacts have user
> > > defined fields in the folder level anymore, only in the item level.
> > > Hence - my first question.

>
> > > Should I create the same fields at the folder level that are saved in
> > > the item level for my contacts folder? I will be creating other
> > > contact folders.

>
> > > I am using a third party program to export the custom fields I am
> > > using. However, the program keeps finding all the user defined fields
> > > I have deleted. I'm guessing the fields are still listed somewhere. I
> > > have created new forms, applied new forms, cleared the cache, but
> > > cannot get rid of the user defined deleted fields.

>
> > > Second question - Is there a place these deleted fields are listed in
> > > Outlook that I can get rid of them? I don't know if there are some of
> > > these old deleted fields at the item level as I have over 15,000
> > > contacts. I don't know if there is a way to find user defined fields
> > > at the item level.

>
> > > The reason for this is I need to export select custom fields. When
> > > there are dozens of extra fields listed but not used, its a laundry
> > > list of fields I need to pick from. I was just hoping there was a
> > > location I can clean up the old deleted user defined fields.

>
> > > I have also asked the vendor where they are getting the listing of
> > > fields from.

>
> > > Thanks

>
> > > Shawn


> Karl:

> Thank you very much. I read through your articles (very useful) and
> had a few more questions if you don't mind. I greatly appreciate the
> articles and your time.

> 1. If I want a field in a view, I must add it at the folder level.
> Since I have no fields left at the folder level, I see that I cannot
> add any of my custom fields (currently custom fields only used in my
> custom form) to my custom view. Also, I'm assuming its probably best
> to create the fields required at the folder level and then copy the
> folder. That way I don't have to recreate the fields again at the
> folder level for the new folder. Correct on these two items?

> 2. I have a custom form and have many custom fields created at both
> the View level and the Form level. I am not using the IPM.Contact
> form. Ignoring first how to clean up the old fields, if I understand
> correctly it seems I should only create fields at the View level. I
> should not create fields using the form designer. Is that correct?

> So I create new fields at view level and then use them in the form
> designer. Correct?

> 3. I tried your Contact Genie Toolkit on a subset contact folder as a
> test. I selected the test folder, my custom form, select "Add/Remove
> Orphan UDFs", and got a message beginning with FTK031 that it only
> works on the IPM.Contact form. Can I use this tool on my custom form
> to remove orphaned fields?

> I don't know if this part of the discussion should be under your
> website.

> 4. When I tested your export utility, none of the deleted fields
> (e.g., Test 1, Test 2) appeared in your export list.

> One thing to note is when I created a brand new contact and tried the
> export, none of the old deleted fields (e.g., Test 1, Test 2) appear
> in the list. It seems new contacts are OK, however, I have about
> 15,000 that probably still have old data that I want to clean up.

> Thanks

> Shawn


Karl:

Yes, I did inherit a mess. I agree. I'm going to read through your

comments in detail and try to proceed forward.

The comment about the "Deleted" field was the 3rd party program listed

all fields that were ever created (I think). Some had numbers by them

like "Test[#-7EE2FFE2]". What I did as a test is copied a few contacts

in a separate contacts folder, did the same test exporting, and those

"Deleted" fields appeared in the 3rd part program as fields to export.

Since there was only 5 contacts I was easily able to see the item and

folder level fields for each contact.

The extra "Deleted" fields were in neither the item level or the

folder level, hence my question when this topic got started. If they

aren't in the folder level or item level, what are they still

appearing in this programs export list of fields. They are not being

listed in your program when exported.

May its an issue with the 3rd party program.

Shawn
 
S

SRM

On Feb 22, 3:05 pm, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:
> Re: "May its an issue with the 3rd party program."

> My I offer a suggestion that will probably save you a great deal
> of unnecessary aggravation and time....

> Given that you are using a custom form, focus <ONLY> on
> the fields you explicitly see in Outlook (those fields
> and any UDF's displayed by any ContactGenie program
> should be identical). Ignore everything else unless additional
> user-defined fields were added to an individual contact
> after a custom form was assigned to it. In this case, the custom
> form will be "one-offed" but that still should never result in
> any "deleted" field from appearing.

> <IF> the program you are using is explicitly iterating through the
> contact item's UserProerties collection from start to finish
> (i.e. starting at entry #1 for the total number of entries in the
> collection) - there is absolutely no question that extraneous info
> may be found and if each and every entry is not checked to
> ensure that it is valid - you will get the results you are seeing -
> deleted fields will be included - there are no ifs, ands or buts
> about it. Outlook is not especially meticulous as to what the
> UserProperty collection contains but it knows what is relevant
> for its purposes. That was a lesson learned the hard way a long
> time ago with the release of the first ContactGenie program
> back in 2001.

> Without knowing the background, sounds nothing more than
> what you are seeing is the field add/delete activity that took place
> when the custom form was designed (deleting a field from a
> custom form does not delete it from the raw UserProperties
> collection which I'm guessing is what is going on and not at all
> something that you should be remotely concerned about).

> Karl
> > ______________________
>

> ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact Mgr
> """http://www.contactgenie.com

> "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:eb24d081-9304-46f8-8315-9ed5318a3ae9@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 22, 11:34 am, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:
>
> > #1 - If you are using a custom form - user-defined fields should
> > <ONLY> be added/deleted within the custom form. You should
> > <NEVER> add any additional fields to a contact item assigned
> > to a custom form since you will only one-off the form. As for
> > copying contacts that use a custom form - make sure that the
> > custom form is available (i.e. by either publishing it to the target
> > folder or to the Personal Forms Lib but strongly advise against
> > the same form published to both the Pers Lib and a folder -
> > recipe for problems)

>
> > #2 - Custom forms do not have "orphan fields" - the UDF list is
> > assigned at the "custom form level" and every contact item
> > assigned a given custom form has the same UDF fields (unless you
> > have manually added other UDF's (see point #1) . As the two
> > articles regarding User-Defined fields point out - UDF's
> > for Folder/Items are different animals then those assigned within
> > a custom form

>
> > #3 - Custom fields in a custom form would be available to be
> > added to any view - not sure about anything added to the folder
> > or item outside of the custom form (see item#1). That said,
> > UDF's added manually to a contact item outside of the
> > custom form is not a scenario handled by CG Toolkit by design.

>
> > <If> you have 15000 contacts assigned to a custom form and
> > these contacts additionally have UDF fields that have been
> > manually added - that by definition means that each and every
> > one of the manually added UDF's has had a value added to it
> > a standard UDF does not get added to a specific contact item
> > unless and until a value is entered into the field. So the question
> > in this is - how exactly are you determining that the contacts
> > assigned to a custom form have extra fields - via Outlook or the
> > 3rd party export program you are using?

>
> > #4 - Any of the ContactGenie products with export functionality
> > <only> include user-defined fields defined at the <Folder> level
> > (for items assigned to IPM.Contact) - all <item> level UDF's are
> > ignored for the reason(s) mentioned in the original answer. Items
> > assigned to a custom form only use the UDFs assigned to the
> > form regardless of what may actually be contained in the a
> > contact item's UserProperty collection. None of the CG products
> > directly reference any item via the Outlook object model (OOM)
> > anymore but instead use Redemption (http://www.dimastr.com)
> > which avoids a lot of potential problems (not sure about O'2007
> > and beyond but dealing with the UserProperty collection directly
> > via OOM opened up a wide variety of potential problems -
> > not the cleanest collection of fields in the world). Only reason for
> > mentioning this is that if your 3rd party export program (please
> > don't reference it by name in this thread - don't know what it is
> > and don't want to know) is still reporting UDF's outside of those
> > contained in the custom form, it is going through the contact item's
> > userproperty collection directly which will include anything and
> > everything that was ever added to it, something which should be
> > of no concern if you are using a custom form.

>
> > #5 - Re: "Deleted field" not appearing in the CG Toolkit export
> > field list. Don't understand the comment - why would you want
> > a deleted field to appear?

>
> > Off the cuff, if you want to clean up what sounds like a mess - you
> > may want to try the following (backing up your PST file before
> > proceeding!!!!!!)

>
> > a) Re-publish your custom form under a new name
> > b) assign all your contacts to this new form name - that should result
> > in your contacts only having the UDF's assigned to the custom form
> > and everything returns to normal. the only custom fields you
> > should see at this point are those solely assigned within the custom
> > form. (Am assuming this to be correct but not 100% sure since
> > haven't tested what happens when #1) UDF's have been manually
> > added to an item assigned to a custom form and then
> > #2) changing the assigned custom form)

>
> > Karl
> > > > ______________________
> >

> > ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact Mgr
> > "Contact import/export/data management tools for Outlook
> > '2000/2010"http://www.contactgenie.com

>
> > "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> >news:873688ce-fd14-4070-8207-1c9a500cf14b@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com....
> > On Feb 20, 5:43 pm, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:

>
> > > First a couple of articles that you may find of interest
> > > #1 - User-defined fields - (in folder) versus (in
> > > item)http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=99

>
> > > #2 - User-Defined (Custom) fields in Custom
> > > Formshttp://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=102

>
> > > To specifically answer your 2 questions:
> > > #1 - Unless you have specifically deleted a user-defined field
> > > for a given item - it has not been deleted for that item
> > > (hence, whatever export program you're using is picking
> > > up the data at the item level versus the folder level)
> > > Exporting every field at the item level may be a nice
> > > concept but the drawback to that is that "technically"
> > > every contact can have a different set of fields - i.e.
> > > in your case, 15,000 contacts can each have a different
> > > UDF resulting in 15,000 different UDF fields for the
> > > folder. Try and put all your contacts in one file and you
> > > have nothing short of a "mess". The chances of every
> > > contact having a different UDF is highly unlikely but
> > > rest assured that we've seen some "highly creative"
> > > environments when it comes to Outlook data which is
> > > also the basis for another article:
> > > "Yes you can..but should you?"
> > >http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=54

>
> > > #2 - There is no place in Outlook that lists "orphan" user-defined
> > > fields - you may find ContactGenie Toolkit of interest
> > > which has a function that addresses that particular issue
> > >http://www.contactgenie.com/toolkit_4_outlook.htm

>
> > > Karl
> > > > > > ______________________
> > >

> > > ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact
> > > Mgr
> > > "Contact import/export/data management tools for Outlook
> > > '2000/2010"http://www.contactgenie.com

>
> > > "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> > >news:08fc2efe-6c3a-44b5-bcf3-6e436a6b46a1@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com....

>
> > > > I'm using O2003. I have used many user defined fields that I have
> > > > deleted and no longer want to use. I have deleted them from my form,
> > > > views, and contacts. In fact, I think none of my contacts have user
> > > > defined fields in the folder level anymore, only in the item level.
> > > > Hence - my first question.

>
> > > > Should I create the same fields at the folder level that are saved in
> > > > the item level for my contacts folder? I will be creating other
> > > > contact folders.

>
> > > > I am using a third party program to export the custom fields I am
> > > > using. However, the program keeps finding all the user defined fields
> > > > I have deleted. I'm guessing the fields are still listed somewhere.I
> > > > have created new forms, applied new forms, cleared the cache, but
> > > > cannot get rid of the user defined deleted fields.

>
> > > > Second question - Is there a place these deleted fields are listed in
> > > > Outlook that I can get rid of them? I don't know if there are some of
> > > > these old deleted fields at the item level as I have over 15,000
> > > > contacts. I don't know if there is a way to find user defined fields
> > > > at the item level.

>
> > > > The reason for this is I need to export select custom fields. When
> > > > there are dozens of extra fields listed but not used, its a laundry
> > > > list of fields I need to pick from. I was just hoping there was a
> > > > location I can clean up the


> ...

> read more »


Karl:

Thank you for all your help. I will go the route of leaving it as is

and ignore the other (deleted) data. I would of liked to clean it up,

but it seems that is not possible and not really required. I'll learn

from your hard learned lesson.

I did notice one thing about the folder level fields. Not sure if

related to my mess or not, but when I merge from outlook, I need the

folder level fields to complete a merge with Word. I always start my

merges with Outlook. I didn't know if that was unique to my situation

or if you had it documented that I did not find in your articles.

Thanks again for all your help.

Shawn
 

Karl Timmermans

Senior Member
Outlook version
Outlook 2013 32 bit
Email Account
POP3
If my assumption as to what is going on is correct - you don't

have an issue with "orphan" fields and most likely don't have

anything to clean up. The meer action of adding and deleting

a field when designing a custom form will result in this field

remaining in the UserProperty collection. However, there is a

very simple way to clean this up -- re-create the custom form

and re-publish it with the same name. If no fields were

deleted when re-creating the form, the "deleted fields"

issue with the other export program will be a thing of the past.

As for the "Folder Level" question - in general terms,

user-defined fields are only available for anything if

included at the "folder level" when using the standard

contact form (IPM.Contact) or when part of a custom

form. UDFs that exist solely at the contact item level are never

accessible for any kind of global function/views etc. Only way

you'll see item level fields which are not included in the "folder

group" is by opening each contact individually.

Karl

______________________

ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact Mgr

"""

"SRM" <shawnmsrm@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:70d68388-2ef2-45dc-ac3f-8711a6d7da82@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com...

On Feb 22, 3:05 pm, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:
> Re: "May its an issue with the 3rd party program."

> My I offer a suggestion that will probably save you a great deal
> of unnecessary aggravation and time....

> Given that you are using a custom form, focus <ONLY> on
> the fields you explicitly see in Outlook (those fields
> and any UDF's displayed by any ContactGenie program
> should be identical). Ignore everything else unless additional
> user-defined fields were added to an individual contact
> after a custom form was assigned to it. In this case, the custom
> form will be "one-offed" but that still should never result in
> any "deleted" field from appearing.

> <IF> the program you are using is explicitly iterating through the
> contact item's UserProerties collection from start to finish
> (i.e. starting at entry #1 for the total number of entries in the
> collection) - there is absolutely no question that extraneous info
> may be found and if each and every entry is not checked to
> ensure that it is valid - you will get the results you are seeing -
> deleted fields will be included - there are no ifs, ands or buts
> about it. Outlook is not especially meticulous as to what the
> UserProperty collection contains but it knows what is relevant
> for its purposes. That was a lesson learned the hard way a long
> time ago with the release of the first ContactGenie program
> back in 2001.

> Without knowing the background, sounds nothing more than
> what you are seeing is the field add/delete activity that took place
> when the custom form was designed (deleting a field from a
> custom form does not delete it from the raw UserProperties
> collection which I'm guessing is what is going on and not at all
> something that you should be remotely concerned about).

> Karl
> > ______________________
>

> ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact Mgr
> "Contact import/export/data management tools for Outlook
> '2000/2010"http://www.contactgenie.com

> "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:eb24d081-9304-46f8-8315-9ed5318a3ae9@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 22, 11:34 am, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:
>
> > #1 - If you are using a custom form - user-defined fields should
> > <ONLY> be added/deleted within the custom form. You should
> > <NEVER> add any additional fields to a contact item assigned
> > to a custom form since you will only one-off the form. As for
> > copying contacts that use a custom form - make sure that the
> > custom form is available (i.e. by either publishing it to the target
> > folder or to the Personal Forms Lib but strongly advise against
> > the same form published to both the Pers Lib and a folder -
> > recipe for problems)

>
> > #2 - Custom forms do not have "orphan fields" - the UDF list is
> > assigned at the "custom form level" and every contact item
> > assigned a given custom form has the same UDF fields (unless you
> > have manually added other UDF's (see point #1) . As the two
> > articles regarding User-Defined fields point out - UDF's
> > for Folder/Items are different animals then those assigned within
> > a custom form

>
> > #3 - Custom fields in a custom form would be available to be
> > added to any view - not sure about anything added to the folder
> > or item outside of the custom form (see item#1). That said,
> > UDF's added manually to a contact item outside of the
> > custom form is not a scenario handled by CG Toolkit by design.

>
> > <If> you have 15000 contacts assigned to a custom form and
> > these contacts additionally have UDF fields that have been
> > manually added - that by definition means that each and every
> > one of the manually added UDF's has had a value added to it
> > a standard UDF does not get added to a specific contact item
> > unless and until a value is entered into the field. So the question
> > in this is - how exactly are you determining that the contacts
> > assigned to a custom form have extra fields - via Outlook or the
> > 3rd party export program you are using?

>
> > #4 - Any of the ContactGenie products with export functionality
> > <only> include user-defined fields defined at the <Folder> level
> > (for items assigned to IPM.Contact) - all <item> level UDF's are
> > ignored for the reason(s) mentioned in the original answer. Items
> > assigned to a custom form only use the UDFs assigned to the
> > form regardless of what may actually be contained in the a
> > contact item's UserProperty collection. None of the CG products
> > directly reference any item via the Outlook object model (OOM)
> > anymore but instead use Redemption (http://www.dimastr.com)
> > which avoids a lot of potential problems (not sure about O'2007
> > and beyond but dealing with the UserProperty collection directly
> > via OOM opened up a wide variety of potential problems -
> > not the cleanest collection of fields in the world). Only reason for
> > mentioning this is that if your 3rd party export program (please
> > don't reference it by name in this thread - don't know what it is
> > and don't want to know) is still reporting UDF's outside of those
> > contained in the custom form, it is going through the contact item's
> > userproperty collection directly which will include anything and
> > everything that was ever added to it, something which should be
> > of no concern if you are using a custom form.

>
> > #5 - Re: "Deleted field" not appearing in the CG Toolkit export
> > field list. Don't understand the comment - why would you want
> > a deleted field to appear?

>
> > Off the cuff, if you want to clean up what sounds like a mess - you
> > may want to try the following (backing up your PST file before
> > proceeding!!!!!!)

>
> > a) Re-publish your custom form under a new name
> > b) assign all your contacts to this new form name - that should result
> > in your contacts only having the UDF's assigned to the custom form
> > and everything returns to normal. the only custom fields you
> > should see at this point are those solely assigned within the custom
> > form. (Am assuming this to be correct but not 100% sure since
> > haven't tested what happens when #1) UDF's have been manually
> > added to an item assigned to a custom form and then
> > #2) changing the assigned custom form)

>
> > Karl
> > > > ______________________
> >

> > ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact
> > Mgr
> > "Contact import/export/data management tools for Outlook
> > '2000/2010"http://www.contactgenie.com

>
> > "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> >news:873688ce-fd14-4070-8207-1c9a500cf14b@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
> > On Feb 20, 5:43 pm, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:

>
> > > First a couple of articles that you may find of interest
> > > #1 - User-defined fields - (in folder) versus (in
> > > item)http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=99

>
> > > #2 - User-Defined (Custom) fields in Custom
> > > Formshttp://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=102

>
> > > To specifically answer your 2 questions:
> > > #1 - Unless you have specifically deleted a user-defined field
> > > for a given item - it has not been deleted for that item
> > > (hence, whatever export program you're using is picking
> > > up the data at the item level versus the folder level)
> > > Exporting every field at the item level may be a nice
> > > concept but the drawback to that is that "technically"
> > > every contact can have a different set of fields - i.e.
> > > in your case, 15,000 contacts can each have a different
> > > UDF resulting in 15,000 different UDF fields for the
> > > folder. Try and put all your contacts in one file and you
> > > have nothing short of a "mess". The chances of every
> > > contact having a different UDF is highly unlikely but
> > > rest assured that we've seen some "highly creative"
> > > environments when it comes to Outlook data which is
> > > also the basis for another article:
> > > "Yes you can..but should you?"
> > >http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=54

>
> > > #2 - There is no place in Outlook that lists "orphan" user-defined
> > > fields - you may find ContactGenie Toolkit of interest
> > > which has a function that addresses that particular issue
> > >http://www.contactgenie.com/toolkit_4_outlook.htm

>
> > > Karl
> > > > > > ______________________
> > >

> > > ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact
> > > Mgr
> > > "Contact import/export/data management tools for Outlook
> > > '2000/2010"http://www.contactgenie.com

>
> > > "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> > >news:08fc2efe-6c3a-44b5-bcf3-6e436a6b46a1@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

>
> > > > I'm using O2003. I have used many user defined fields that I have
> > > > deleted and no longer want to use. I have deleted them from my
> > > > form,
> > > > views, and contacts. In fact, I think none of my contacts have user
> > > > defined fields in the folder level anymore, only in the item level.
> > > > Hence - my first question.

>
> > > > Should I create the same fields at the folder level that are saved
> > > > in
> > > > the item level for my contacts folder? I will be creating other
> > > > contact folders.

>
> > > > I am using a third party program to export the custom fields I am
> > > > using. However, the program keeps finding all the user defined
> > > > fields
> > > > I have deleted. I'm guessing the fields are still listed somewhere.
> > > > I
> > > > have created new forms, applied new forms, cleared the cache, but
> > > > cannot get rid of the user defined deleted fields.

>
> > > > Second question - Is there a place these deleted fields are listed
> > > > in
> > > > Outlook that I can get rid of them? I don't know if there are some
> > > > of
> > > > these old deleted fields at the item level as I have over 15,000
> > > > contacts. I don't know if there is a way to find user defined
> > > > fields
> > > > at the item level.

>
> > > > The reason for this is I need to export select custom fields. When
> > > > there are dozens of extra fields listed but not used, its a laundry
> > > > list of fields I need to pick from. I was just hoping there was a
> > > > location I can clean up the


> ...

> read more »


Karl:

Thank you for all your help. I will go the route of leaving it as is

and ignore the other (deleted) data. I would of liked to clean it up,

but it seems that is not possible and not really required. I'll learn

from your hard learned lesson.

I did notice one thing about the folder level fields. Not sure if

related to my mess or not, but when I merge from outlook, I need the

folder level fields to complete a merge with Word. I always start my

merges with Outlook. I didn't know if that was unique to my situation

or if you had it documented that I did not find in your articles.

Thanks again for all your help.

Shawn
 
S

SRM

On Feb 23, 9:38 am, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:
> If my assumption as to what is going on is correct - you don't
> have an issue with "orphan" fields and most likely don't have
> anything to clean up. The meer action of adding and deleting
> a field when designing a custom form will result in this field
> remaining in the UserProperty collection. However, there is a
> very simple way to clean this up -- re-create the custom form
> and re-publish it with the same name. If no fields were
> deleted when re-creating the form, the "deleted fields"
> issue with the other export program will be a thing of the past.

> As for the "Folder Level" question - in general terms,
> user-defined fields are only available for anything if
> included at the "folder level" when using the standard
> contact form (IPM.Contact) or when part of a custom
> form. UDFs that exist solely at the contact item level are never
> accessible for any kind of global function/views etc. Only way
> you'll see item level fields which are not included in the "folder
> group" is by opening each contact individually.

> Karl
> > ______________________
>

> ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact Mgr
> """http://www.contactgenie.com

> "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:70d68388-2ef2-45dc-ac3f-8711a6d7da82@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 22, 3:05 pm, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:
>
> > Re: "May its an issue with the 3rd party program."

>
> > My I offer a suggestion that will probably save you a great deal
> > of unnecessary aggravation and time....

>
> > Given that you are using a custom form, focus <ONLY> on
> > the fields you explicitly see in Outlook (those fields
> > and any UDF's displayed by any ContactGenie program
> > should be identical). Ignore everything else unless additional
> > user-defined fields were added to an individual contact
> > after a custom form was assigned to it. In this case, the custom
> > form will be "one-offed" but that still should never result in
> > any "deleted" field from appearing.

>
> > <IF> the program you are using is explicitly iterating through the
> > contact item's UserProerties collection from start to finish
> > (i.e. starting at entry #1 for the total number of entries in the
> > collection) - there is absolutely no question that extraneous info
> > may be found and if each and every entry is not checked to
> > ensure that it is valid - you will get the results you are seeing -
> > deleted fields will be included - there are no ifs, ands or buts
> > about it. Outlook is not especially meticulous as to what the
> > UserProperty collection contains but it knows what is relevant
> > for its purposes. That was a lesson learned the hard way a long
> > time ago with the release of the first ContactGenie program
> > back in 2001.

>
> > Without knowing the background, sounds nothing more than
> > what you are seeing is the field add/delete activity that took place
> > when the custom form was designed (deleting a field from a
> > custom form does not delete it from the raw UserProperties
> > collection which I'm guessing is what is going on and not at all
> > something that you should be remotely concerned about).

>
> > Karl
> > > > ______________________
> >

> > ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact Mgr
> > "Contact import/export/data management tools for Outlook
> > '2000/2010"http://www.contactgenie.com

>
> > "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> >news:eb24d081-9304-46f8-8315-9ed5318a3ae9@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com....
> > On Feb 22, 11:34 am, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:

>
> > > #1 - If you are using a custom form - user-defined fields should
> > > <ONLY> be added/deleted within the custom form. You should
> > > <NEVER> add any additional fields to a contact item assigned
> > > to a custom form since you will only one-off the form. As for
> > > copying contacts that use a custom form - make sure that the
> > > custom form is available (i.e. by either publishing it to the target
> > > folder or to the Personal Forms Lib but strongly advise against
> > > the same form published to both the Pers Lib and a folder -
> > > recipe for problems)

>
> > > #2 - Custom forms do not have "orphan fields" - the UDF list is
> > > assigned at the "custom form level" and every contact item
> > > assigned a given custom form has the same UDF fields (unless you
> > > have manually added other UDF's (see point #1) . As the two
> > > articles regarding User-Defined fields point out - UDF's
> > > for Folder/Items are different animals then those assigned within
> > > a custom form

>
> > > #3 - Custom fields in a custom form would be available to be
> > > added to any view - not sure about anything added to the folder
> > > or item outside of the custom form (see item#1). That said,
> > > UDF's added manually to a contact item outside of the
> > > custom form is not a scenario handled by CG Toolkit by design.

>
> > > <If> you have 15000 contacts assigned to a custom form and
> > > these contacts additionally have UDF fields that have been
> > > manually added - that by definition means that each and every
> > > one of the manually added UDF's has had a value added to it
> > > a standard UDF does not get added to a specific contact item
> > > unless and until a value is entered into the field. So the question
> > > in this is - how exactly are you determining that the contacts
> > > assigned to a custom form have extra fields - via Outlook or the
> > > 3rd party export program you are using?

>
> > > #4 - Any of the ContactGenie products with export functionality
> > > <only> include user-defined fields defined at the <Folder> level
> > > (for items assigned to IPM.Contact) - all <item> level UDF's are
> > > ignored for the reason(s) mentioned in the original answer. Items
> > > assigned to a custom form only use the UDFs assigned to the
> > > form regardless of what may actually be contained in the a
> > > contact item's UserProperty collection. None of the CG products
> > > directly reference any item via the Outlook object model (OOM)
> > > anymore but instead use Redemption (http://www.dimastr.com)
> > > which avoids a lot of potential problems (not sure about O'2007
> > > and beyond but dealing with the UserProperty collection directly
> > > via OOM opened up a wide variety of potential problems -
> > > not the cleanest collection of fields in the world). Only reason for
> > > mentioning this is that if your 3rd party export program (please
> > > don't reference it by name in this thread - don't know what it is
> > > and don't want to know) is still reporting UDF's outside of those
> > > contained in the custom form, it is going through the contact item's
> > > userproperty collection directly which will include anything and
> > > everything that was ever added to it, something which should be
> > > of no concern if you are using a custom form.

>
> > > #5 - Re: "Deleted field" not appearing in the CG Toolkit export
> > > field list. Don't understand the comment - why would you want
> > > a deleted field to appear?

>
> > > Off the cuff, if you want to clean up what sounds like a mess - you
> > > may want to try the following (backing up your PST file before
> > > proceeding!!!!!!)

>
> > > a) Re-publish your custom form under a new name
> > > b) assign all your contacts to this new form name - that should result
> > > in your contacts only having the UDF's assigned to the custom form
> > > and everything returns to normal. the only custom fields you
> > > should see at this point are those solely assigned within the custom
> > > form. (Am assuming this to be correct but not 100% sure since
> > > haven't tested what happens when #1) UDF's have been manually
> > > added to an item assigned to a custom form and then
> > > #2) changing the assigned custom form)

>
> > > Karl
> > > > > > ______________________
> > >

> > > ContactGenie - QuickPort/DataPort/Exporter/Toolkit/Duplicate Contact
> > > Mgr
> > > "Contact import/export/data management tools for Outlook
> > > '2000/2010"http://www.contactgenie.com

>
> > > "SRM" <shawnm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> > >news:873688ce-fd14-4070-8207-1c9a500cf14b@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com....
> > > On Feb 20, 5:43 pm, "Karl Timmermans" <k...@claxton.com> wrote:

>
> > > > First a couple of articles that you may find of interest
> > > > #1 - User-defined fields - (in folder) versus (in
> > > > item)http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=99

>
> > > > #2 - User-Defined (Custom) fields in Custom
> > > > Formshttp://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=102

>
> > > > To specifically answer your 2 questions:
> > > > #1 - Unless you have specifically deleted a user-defined field
> > > > for a given item - it has not been deleted for that item
> > > > (hence, whatever export program you're using is picking
> > > > up the data at the item level versus the folder level)
> > > > Exporting every field at the item level may be a nice
> > > > concept but the drawback to that is that "technically"
> > > > every contact can have a different set of fields - i.e.
> > > > in your case, 15,000 contacts can each have a different
> > > > UDF resulting in 15,000 different UDF fields for the
> > > > folder. Try and put all your contacts in one file and you
> > > > have nothing short of a "mess". The chances of every
> > > > contact having a different UDF is highly unlikely but
> > > > rest assured that we've seen some "highly creative"
> > > > environments when it comes to Outlook data which is
> > > > also the basis for another article:
> > > > "Yes you can..but should you?"
> > > >http://www.contactgenie.com/blog/?p=54

>
> > > > #2 - There is no place in Outlook that lists "orphan" user-defined
> > > > fields - you may find ContactGenie Toolkit of interest
> > > > which has a function that addresses that particular issue
> > > >http://www.contactgenie.com/toolkit_4_outlook.htm

>
> > > > Karl
> > > > > > > > ______________________
> > > > Karl Timmermans


> ...

> read more »


Karl:

Thanks. I made a new contacts folder and copied some contacts over to

complete some tests (per your instructions).

1. I took the default Outlook form, published it as the form I was

using (SRM). I added no new fields. Basically is was the default

Outlook form published as a new name. No change. Old deleted fields

still appearing.

2. I edited my current form and just published with a new name

(Test1). I changed the form of each contact to the new form. Also

changed the posting to the new form. No change. Old deleted fields

still appearing.

3. With the same contacts, I then took the default Outlook form,

published it as a new form (Test2). I changed the form of each contact

to the new form. Also changed the posting to the new form. There were

now no no fields at the item level or the folder level. No change. Old

deleted fields still appearing.

Shawn
 

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