RE: Outlook BCM vs. Dynamics CRM

  • Thread starter Leonid S. Knyshov // SBS Expert
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Leonid S. Knyshov // SBS Expert

You asked a very interesting question.

I am answering it here, crossposting to microsoft.public.outlook.bcm (where

all we talk about is BCM) and will post a copy on my website as well. That's

why the reply is unusually detailed.

The primary differentiator that really matters to most customers, in my

opinion, is availability of support and Sharepoint integration features, but

you will pay for this dearly.

BCM is supported by a relatively few people including myself whereas MS

Dynamics CRM is a well-supported mature product.

I love the BCM product, but CRM integrates with the rest of Dynamics family

of products and Sharepoint extremely well.

BCM's customization opportunities are limited due to its relatively small

support ecosystem unless you happen to be a software developer. It's much

easier to hire a Dynamics CRM customization expert. We are required to be

trained and certified in order to sell Dynamics CRM and Microsoft invests

very heavily in its partners like me who offer such complex solutions.

On the big plus side, BCM is a lot less expensive than Microsoft Dynamics

CRM. Before we talk about the strengths of the product, have you ever priced

CRM 4.0?

A 5-user CRM deployment under open value license would cost you $3093.

You'll also need SBS 2008 Premium to run it (otherwise SQL costs eat you

alive) which is another $2916. You may argue against software assurance, but

everyone wants to upgrade eventually and then they find out it costs more

than it would have been with SA. Quite frankly, there is no choice in this

instance.

So there you have a $6000 solution. By the way, it is not possible to buy

CRM without Software Assurance as a volume license product. It is also not

possible to buy this product at retail, unlike BCM that can be purchased as

part of retail Office 2007 and 2010 packages.

While Microsoft has a marginally attractive $44/mo/user offer, the Workgroup

edition includes 5 CALs in which case it's $220/mo for 5 users based on

$44/user/mo. I would actually make a lot more money selling you the online

version of CRM than I would if I were to sell you the on-premises solution.

It's significantly less expensive to install the product locally if you

already have the infrastructure. And this is just the Workgroup edition.

Professional (required for more than 5 users) and Enterprise are priced at

$1236/user. The CRM Professional server costs $2475 and comes with one CAL so

we'd need to add 4 more CALs to match the 5 built-in CALs in CRM Workgroup

server edition.

Thus, the actual true value of the Workgroup server package before any other

costs is $7419 and not $3093.

Customers with CRM 4.0 and 3yr software assurance will receive CRM 5.0 and

related CALs as part of their SA benefits and at no additional charge.

A competent SQL professional can make the BCM product do pretty interesting

things as an SDK is available to extend it. Web-based components, 10+ users

etc. :)

This does put things into perspective a bit, right? :)

It is possible to upgrade from BCM to the full-blown CRM. It's not an

intuitive solution, however. I am tempted to actually write a good conversion

tool for this and sell a complete conversion service.

As long as you spend less than $5000 over three years on customization,

you'll come out ahead using BCM vs. CRM.

While BCM 2007 is already a great product, in my opinion, BCM 2010 is

promising to be an even more mature product.

http://blogs.msdn.com/bcm/archive/2009/08/26/bcm-2010-customization-101-form-customization.aspx

but you will still have to rely on fairly limited support channels.

I've been committed to supporting the BCM product since BCM 2003 and CRM

since CRM 1.2 as 1.0 was not ready, to put it mildly.

If the features BCM offers you are sufficient for your organization, you may

find it to be a good alternative to MS CRM. Otherwise, it's the cost of

development + support vs. buying a supported solution with features available

out of the box. BCM runs on SQL server, so your data can be manipulated in

infinite ways if you hire a reports writing professional.

Bottom line is this: If you have more time than money, BCM is great. If you

have more money than time, Dynamics CRM is superior but comes at a price. :)

Leonid S. Knyshov

"reha" wrote:


> is there anybody who can explain the major difference between Outlook with
> Business Contact Manager and Dynamics CRM?
 
R

reha

leonid,

thank you very much for the detailed explanation indeed.

it greatly helped me to understand it much better.

regards

"Leonid S. Knyshov // SBS Expert" wrote:


> You asked a very interesting question.

> I am answering it here, crossposting to microsoft.public.outlook.bcm (where
> all we talk about is BCM) and will post a copy on my website as well. That's
> why the reply is unusually detailed.

> The primary differentiator that really matters to most customers, in my
> opinion, is availability of support and Sharepoint integration features, but
> you will pay for this dearly.

> BCM is supported by a relatively few people including myself whereas MS
> Dynamics CRM is a well-supported mature product.

> I love the BCM product, but CRM integrates with the rest of Dynamics family
> of products and Sharepoint extremely well.

> BCM's customization opportunities are limited due to its relatively small
> support ecosystem unless you happen to be a software developer. It's much
> easier to hire a Dynamics CRM customization expert. We are required to be
> trained and certified in order to sell Dynamics CRM and Microsoft invests
> very heavily in its partners like me who offer such complex solutions.

> On the big plus side, BCM is a lot less expensive than Microsoft Dynamics
> CRM. Before we talk about the strengths of the product, have you ever priced
> CRM 4.0?

> A 5-user CRM deployment under open value license would cost you $3093.
> You'll also need SBS 2008 Premium to run it (otherwise SQL costs eat you
> alive) which is another $2916. You may argue against software assurance, but
> everyone wants to upgrade eventually and then they find out it costs more
> than it would have been with SA. Quite frankly, there is no choice in this
> instance.

> So there you have a $6000 solution. By the way, it is not possible to buy
> CRM without Software Assurance as a volume license product. It is also not
> possible to buy this product at retail, unlike BCM that can be purchased as
> part of retail Office 2007 and 2010 packages.

> While Microsoft has a marginally attractive $44/mo/user offer, the Workgroup
> edition includes 5 CALs in which case it's $220/mo for 5 users based on
> $44/user/mo. I would actually make a lot more money selling you the online
> version of CRM than I would if I were to sell you the on-premises solution.
> It's significantly less expensive to install the product locally if you
> already have the infrastructure. And this is just the Workgroup edition.
> Professional (required for more than 5 users) and Enterprise are priced at
> $1236/user. The CRM Professional server costs $2475 and comes with one CAL so
> we'd need to add 4 more CALs to match the 5 built-in CALs in CRM Workgroup
> server edition.

> Thus, the actual true value of the Workgroup server package before any other
> costs is $7419 and not $3093.

> Customers with CRM 4.0 and 3yr software assurance will receive CRM 5.0 and
> related CALs as part of their SA benefits and at no additional charge.

> A competent SQL professional can make the BCM product do pretty interesting
> things as an SDK is available to extend it. Web-based components, 10+ users
> etc. :)

> This does put things into perspective a bit, right? :)

> It is possible to upgrade from BCM to the full-blown CRM. It's not an
> intuitive solution, however. I am tempted to actually write a good conversion
> tool for this and sell a complete conversion service.

> As long as you spend less than $5000 over three years on customization,
> you'll come out ahead using BCM vs. CRM.

> While BCM 2007 is already a great product, in my opinion, BCM 2010 is
> promising to be an even more mature product.
> http://blogs.msdn.com/bcm/archive/2009/08/26/bcm-2010-customization-101-form-customization.aspx
> but you will still have to rely on fairly limited support channels.

> I've been committed to supporting the BCM product since BCM 2003 and CRM
> since CRM 1.2 as 1.0 was not ready, to put it mildly.

> If the features BCM offers you are sufficient for your organization, you may
> find it to be a good alternative to MS CRM. Otherwise, it's the cost of
> development + support vs. buying a supported solution with features available
> out of the box. BCM runs on SQL server, so your data can be manipulated in
> infinite ways if you hire a reports writing professional.

> Bottom line is this: If you have more time than money, BCM is great. If you
> have more money than time, Dynamics CRM is superior but comes at a price. :)
> > Leonid S. Knyshov
>

>

>

> >

>

> "reha" wrote:
>
> > is there anybody who can explain the major difference between Outlook with
> > Business Contact Manager and Dynamics CRM?
 
A

askeeta

"Leonid S. Knyshov // SBS Expert" wrote:


> You asked a very interesting question.

> I am answering it here, crossposting to microsoft.public.outlook.bcm (where
> all we talk about is BCM) and will post a copy on my website as well. That's
> why the reply is unusually detailed.

> The primary differentiator that really matters to most customers, in my
> opinion, is availability of support and Sharepoint integration features, but
> you will pay for this dearly.

> BCM is supported by a relatively few people including myself whereas MS
> Dynamics CRM is a well-supported mature product.

> I love the BCM product, but CRM integrates with the rest of Dynamics family
> of products and Sharepoint extremely well.

> BCM's customization opportunities are limited due to its relatively small
> support ecosystem unless you happen to be a software developer. It's much
> easier to hire a Dynamics CRM customization expert. We are required to be
> trained and certified in order to sell Dynamics CRM and Microsoft invests
> very heavily in its partners like me who offer such complex solutions.

> On the big plus side, BCM is a lot less expensive than Microsoft Dynamics
> CRM. Before we talk about the strengths of the product, have you ever priced
> CRM 4.0?

> A 5-user CRM deployment under open value license would cost you $3093.
> You'll also need SBS 2008 Premium to run it (otherwise SQL costs eat you
> alive) which is another $2916. You may argue against software assurance, but
> everyone wants to upgrade eventually and then they find out it costs more
> than it would have been with SA. Quite frankly, there is no choice in this
> instance.

> So there you have a $6000 solution. By the way, it is not possible to buy
> CRM without Software Assurance as a volume license product. It is also not
> possible to buy this product at retail, unlike BCM that can be purchased as
> part of retail Office 2007 and 2010 packages.

> While Microsoft has a marginally attractive $44/mo/user offer, the Workgroup
> edition includes 5 CALs in which case it's $220/mo for 5 users based on
> $44/user/mo. I would actually make a lot more money selling you the online
> version of CRM than I would if I were to sell you the on-premises solution.
> It's significantly less expensive to install the product locally if you
> already have the infrastructure. And this is just the Workgroup edition.
> Professional (required for more than 5 users) and Enterprise are priced at
> $1236/user. The CRM Professional server costs $2475 and comes with one CAL so
> we'd need to add 4 more CALs to match the 5 built-in CALs in CRM Workgroup
> server edition.

> Thus, the actual true value of the Workgroup server package before any other
> costs is $7419 and not $3093.

> Customers with CRM 4.0 and 3yr software assurance will receive CRM 5.0 and
> related CALs as part of their SA benefits and at no additional charge.

> A competent SQL professional can make the BCM product do pretty interesting
> things as an SDK is available to extend it. Web-based components, 10+ users
> etc. :)

> This does put things into perspective a bit, right? :)

> It is possible to upgrade from BCM to the full-blown CRM. It's not an
> intuitive solution, however. I am tempted to actually write a good conversion
> tool for this and sell a complete conversion service.

> As long as you spend less than $5000 over three years on customization,
> you'll come out ahead using BCM vs. CRM.

> While BCM 2007 is already a great product, in my opinion, BCM 2010 is
> promising to be an even more mature product.
> http://blogs.msdn.com/bcm/archive/2009/08/26/bcm-2010-customization-101-form-customization.aspx
> but you will still have to rely on fairly limited support channels.

> I've been committed to supporting the BCM product since BCM 2003 and CRM
> since CRM 1.2 as 1.0 was not ready, to put it mildly.

> If the features BCM offers you are sufficient for your organization, you may
> find it to be a good alternative to MS CRM. Otherwise, it's the cost of
> development + support vs. buying a supported solution with features available
> out of the box. BCM runs on SQL server, so your data can be manipulated in
> infinite ways if you hire a reports writing professional.

> Bottom line is this: If you have more time than money, BCM is great. If you
> have more money than time, Dynamics CRM is superior but comes at a price. :)
> > Leonid S. Knyshov
>

>

>

> >

>

> "reha" wrote:
>
> > is there anybody who can explain the major difference between Outlook with
> > Business Contact Manager and Dynamics CRM?
 
A

askeeta

Hi Leonid

Thank you for the evaluation!

Can you either direct me to information,or provide,on how to share a BCM

database with 4 persons with all to be able to edit and access records, we

have an enviroment that has a server,are not using exchange,but have server

access via VPN

 
Last edited by a moderator:
J

Jim

Great answer to an outstanding question. Thanks to both.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
S

Stacie Phillips

Hello Leonid,

I found your reply very helpful - thank you!

I am looking for a new crm solution, having used ACT! for may years. We are

a small business with 5 users, a server w/SBS 2003, exchange. All users have

laptops w/XP and we need a strong solution that enables them to work remotely

with the crm data and synch back to the server. I have spent much time

customizing ACT! V8 (especially adding custom tracking info to the

opportunities records), and while the program mostly does what it needs to

for us, we are running into problems, and the lack of support for older

versions, combined with the slow speed, etc. has me shopping. Cost is a

concern, and we have a few open licenses that include the BCM, but the

networking and customization limitations have me concerned. I can come up

with $6k from the budget for CRM if I have to, but am concerned how much the

overall investment, after converting the data, customization, etc. will creep

up. I would be grateful for any insight you are willing to share . Thanks!

 
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